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you sir, are underexposed. but, unfortunately, you do speak of the populace. still. i insist. underexposed. and in rebuttal to your comment about "no class failable."

precalc. death. tantamount.

"Am I blaming these students? Not at all; they make their own decisions. But I do blame the faculty, administration, or community members who want to believe something is at fault other than the student’s attitude."

---------------------------------

I think we need to be careful here. To blame poor grades on attitude and attitude alone is very convenient, but it leaves out half the picture. Yes I agree, any motivated individual, regardless of their background, CAN ultimately succeed at BHS, and I'd even argue in our society. That is the promise of equality. But I think we need to take into account the idea of "equity," as many Affirmative Action advocates call it. The oft-quoted analogy is this:

You have two people. One has just eaten a nice, satisfying meal, and the other hasn't eaten for days. "Equality," as we practice it, would give an equal portion of food to each person. "Equity," on the other hand, would give the starving individual a greater portion, since they had a greater need. Now obviously this example is simplified, and it doesn't pose the central question of "Why is one of them starving in the first place?" But I think one of the ideas of a fair society is that we assist people according to their needs, AT LEAST when it comes to something as central as education. I'm not saying we should take the Socialist mantra and give the poor more money, simply due to their need. But when it comes to something as basic as education, something so central to our society, I believe we ought to approach students based on their backgrounds.

The fact of the matter is that school is NOT equal. Starting from the first-grade, some students grow up in environments that encourage education more than other environments. Even neglecting the issue of private/public schools for a moment (something that we can't fairly neglect, given that many BHS students come from a private-school background), there is very little the school can do to compensate for the background a student comes from. And what are these backgrounds, you might wonder? Let me try a very basic outline.

Very few black or hispanic students have parents that went to college. In fact, if you talk to many hispanic students at BHS, you'll find that most of their parents never completed high school. And I'm not even saying this in regards to their parents being socially-disadvantaged, either. It is just that many hispanic immigrants come from cultures where education (particularly higher-education) is just not something people engage in. It is not part of the societal fabric, certainly not as much as it is in the USA in general, and in Berkeley in particular. Many of these parents don't even speak english, let alone read it, let alone write it. What kind of influence do you think that has on a child, whose greatest heroes are his/her parents?

"But why would a child be influenced by his parents deficiencies?" you might ask. It comes out in the most basic of things. For instance, the very act of sitting down to do homework, an act that is something of a tradition for many students, has never been instilled in many of these folks. Reading, something many white and asian students are brought up on even prior to school, is simply not part of the family culture. There aren't books lying around. Why would there be, when the parents don't read? Math, probably THE subject where the greatest gaps are found, is not taught and reenforced in these family's. The importance of performing well at school is not taught by the parents, and in all likelihood is not even understood. The doors a college education can open are beyond many parents minds. They just don't understand our society in those terms. The central role of college is not part of their consciousness.

And then of course there is the psychology of it. Even if you do give these students after-school programs, special-resources, and enroll them in book-clubs, even then the psychology will be going against them. The questions will rise to the surface eventually:

"Why am I going to school when all my friends aren't? And why are they having more fun than I am?"

"Why haven't all of these grown-ups in my family ever gone to college?"

"Why am I told to study hard, and yet my parents spend their time in-front of the TV?"

...and the worst one...

"Why do my older brothers/sisters not care about school?"

For a young sibling, there is no greater role-model than their older siblings. Many social studies have shown that children, especially from economically-poor environments, look up to their siblings more than their parents. And when their older brother or sister starts cutting school and getting in trouble, their whole standard collapses. We are naturally inclined to follow our family. As easy as it may be for someone from a more advantaged background to say "Break the bad family tradition," it is HARD. Too hard. And those that have done it are very often too pained to even talk about it. Your whole world, your whole culture, your whole tradition... it is not simple to go against it all, even if that world and that culture is sub-standard. We are naturally inclined to feel attached to the environment we grow up in. Those that grow up in a pro-education environment are motivated to learn for life. And those that grow up in an environment where education is neglected end up neglecting education. It's not pretty, but that's the truth of the matter.

So to sum up, I agree with you that low-motivation is the cause here, and as in any problem the cause ought to be addressed first. But when we start investigating this cause, and start asking "why do these students not care about education?", we'll discover very quickly that the picture is more complex. I won't attempt to offer my solutions here, but needless to say, the issue is much deeper than simply putting all the blame on the student's attitudes. Those attitudes are VERY deep, and are the result of a persons whole upbringing. And of course it doesn't help that our society in general doesn't promote education.

Just make sure you ask yourself WHY these students have the attitudes they do. Other than that, I agree: we ought to address the cause, not the effect.

-Tal

As I said, I would never claim that every student has equivalent opportunities, backgrounds, and advantages when it comes to education. My point here was threefold:

1) The entire issue is so unbelievably more complex than most of the armchair reformers would like to think, that trying to understand it in brief, quantized terms is utterly false.

2) Is it the gap in achievement that's the real problem, the real concern? Or is it the racial stigma of any possible inequality?

3) Those who believe that all students should be achieving well in school are chasing their tail if they try to force it onto them. The only answer, bar none, lies in the student himself choosing that path.

Am I saying that this is simple, an easy way to go? Absolutely not. Again, everyone does have a different base to work from, and some will have a very difficult time even if they want to try. And as always, that decision remains theirs. Are there various lifestyles and social groups that do not value education? Yes. It's not my place to condemn that; it's simply a different set of priorities. The difficulty is when you come from such a background that does not have such values (your family, your friends), yet decide that you DO want to try and make school "happen." Impossible? Still no. Difficult? Of course.

Is there a way to make it easier? Well, that, at least, is something that gets done; the system of support for the needy student is particularly well-developed here. Can more be done? Always.

ok so first of all, i think you all are trying a little too hard to sound...well....highly intellectual.

dude, you're 16 and you have this site, these views, and those skills. be proud of yourself without inflating your ego.

OK....to the point. i wasn't aware of how bad [?] the situation at bhs is, even though i live like maybe 6 blocks from it. this may have to do with the lack of a television for local news, but tv rots your brain anyway.

but i'm from LA. i know how high school can be a fuckin boring, utterly useless, overall piece of shit experience. and i commend you for blaming it on the students themselves [although i agree with dude up here about students' backgrounds as a major factor] for fuckin up their lives. i've seen many, many people do very, very stupid things because well, they just didn't care. what else was there to do anyway? why not? who the fuck are you to judge? you don't know me!

that's the mantra, isn't it?

yeah, i know how it goes. but i still got here anyway. although most of the time, i wonder how the hell i got into berkeley.

but yeah. keep it up.

"It’s social. Perhaps even cultural. Students don’t go home and find themselves unable to study because their father keeps slapping them with fish or because their busy drug-dealing schedule won’t leave them resting for a moment; they go home and decide not to study because they don’t want to. Whether it’s embedded in their upbringing and community, or a personal decision, the fact remains — they’re watching TV, they’re hanging with their friends, they’re doing everything but school. They don’t care. They’re not interested."

You are quite literally speaking just for yourself; don't use "they." There's not even the managerial titles "we" and "us" you can cower behind to sound like a bolder force anymore. Face it bub - you're suffering from ennuie. Don't try to quantify and simplify social/cultural issues that have been unresolved since their flawed inception. You are bitter and depressed. Luckily, that's what being a teenager is all about. Congrats, you're typical.

Rachel, with all due respect... you seem to be trying awefully hard to crack Brandon's nut, like some desperate psychiatrist who's met their match. I'm not sure what end this ends up serving, but that aside, I just can't understand why you would discourage a high-school student from asking these tough questions. Why be so cynical? Why limit the discussion people are engaging in? Does it somehow threaten you that a high-school student would find these topics of interest?

I guess I'm just not understanding the logic in criticizing the very ACT of argument, while not actually adressing the arguement itself. If you disagree with what the author is saying, I'd love to hear it, and I'd even appreciate it more if you'd explain why you disagree. But to just criticize the author on the sole criteria of their age and "underexposure" is not only a shallow rebuttal, but it is also quite a cynical outlook on the world. Should the young all avoid questioning the world, because they simply don't have the experience? Of course not. In fact, it is the other way around: it is exactly through the act of questioning that we gain our experience. What I'm saying is that it is better to face the storm naive than to not face it at all.

Now if you want to challenge the actual premises of the arguement, PLEASE DO. I'd love to hear why you disagree with the article. But don't just dismiss it on the sole basis of the author's age and inexperience. That doesn't do much, other than to limit discussion.

I'm not invalidating the fact that he's entitled to his freedom of speech, but the arrogant tone with which he saturates his words irks me no end. The frustrating thing about this blog {it merits no other title} is the eloquence that is wasted on superiority. The omniscient view with which one speaks must be validated by SOMETHING. Having interacted with "the management" on a somewhat intimate level {scattered classes together for three years}, the catalyst for my jaded and cynical outbursts may lie within the personal interactions I have survived. I do acknowledge that my comment came off bitter, which it may have been, but I am a bit insulted that you would think that I am threatened. It just bothers me when people speak for the populace like they know what's going on. If you make sweeping generalizations, expect some backlash. People do get beat with fish, deal drugs, take heroin, go to mental institutions, or even just suffer from apathy. I'm not criticizing the author's lack of age but his naivety in thinking that he is world-weary. He hasn't seen it all, and yet he writes with the head-shaking, wistful-eyed wisdom of Jesus, with a dictionary. That Naeiri person hit it:

"i think you all are trying a little too hard to sound...well....highly intellectual.

dude, you're 16 and you have this site, these views, and those skills. be proud of yourself without inflating your ego."

word.

I didn't dismiss this article and I actually synthesized quite a bit of it, though my intelligence does seem marginalized by you, Tal. The last thing I'll address before I resign myself to music is the fact that I was challenging his argument. But I don't feel I am well-informed/experienced enough to argue. Or else I just don't care. I agree with the sweeping majority of his valid points but those paragraphs {to which I called attention by pasting within comment} frustrated me. Not just the writing style, but the concept and intent. He didn't question anything. He stated. That was my argument. But as some dude says, "one should not argue about tastes."

Oh come on. There's nothing wrong with arrogance. You take a position and you state it, and you state it strongly, and you get people to disagree. That's what we want here. It's that thing called debate. Sure he can punctuate every sentence with "but I may possibly be wrong", take out half the points and replace them with questions, and end with how everyone's opinion is valid -- but frankly, I don't see what good that will do for the web site. Kind of ironic that the responders say how uncool it is to voice an opinion strongly, in an article that complains about ennui.

How can you can you categorically blame each and every "bad" student for their own academic failings in school? Surely some student's truly struggle in a variety of non-apathetic ways, from non-diagnosed learning disabilities, language barriers, or true problems in the home (either being "slapped by fish" or having to work to support a poverty stricken family). Aren't you simply stooping to the lowly sweeping assertions of the "TAG" softies, albeit the other extreme? There are 3,000 students at your school, do you really know the reasons for each bad kid's inability to pass a class? Surely someone of your "Dawson's Creek" caliber intelligence can understand that not all are blessed with your much loved smarts.

Actually, my entire point was that most students WILL have different experiences and some will have an harder time than others -- but that few if any will find it absolutely, categorically, 100% impossible to succeed... and moreover, that most students who feel that it IS impossible really mean they just don't want to do it (or at least, don't want it that badly). It's not bad, or wrong -- I do it as well -- it's just human nature.

"Actually, my entire point was that most students WILL have different experiences and some will have an harder time than others -- but that few if any will find it absolutely, categorically, 100% impossible to succeed... and moreover, that most students who feel that it IS impossible really mean they just don't want to do it (or at least, don't want it that badly)."

I think this line of thinking tends to oversimplify the issue. Many of the students who "don't want to do it" may have much more pressing concerns than getting their application to Dartmouth in on time, or balancing their GPA and extracurriculars. I think your comments tend to trivialize the gravity of the experiences of other students without considering what they go through. Why should they "want to" turn in a lousy paper when they've got siblings in jail or can't make the rent or have to get an abortion? These aren't gross exaggerations because these things really do happen to many students at BHS and BAHS. In fact, school may seem like a completely trivial exercise when compared to the quality of life that these kids lead. People can easily say "few if any will find it absolutely, categorically, 100% impossible to succeed" if they themselves haven't had to deal with hardship and necessity.

That doesn't contradict my point, though. It's certainly possible to have VALID reasons why school is not your priority -- why you actually make the choice not to put forth that x effort and make it happen. It has to be possible, because there's no way for us to define what constitutes a "valid" reason without making it a moral issue. Frankly, it may or may not be practical, but even "don't want to" as a reason has no intrinsic flaws in my view, and there are certainly a vast range of reasons more compelling.

The point is, if you're making the choice to prioritize other things (whether or not it is something you see as a "choice"), that doesn't mean you actually, literally lacked the capability to perform to whatever potential in school.

It just means you're not. And if anyone hopes to solve that, the solution isn't to start from the vantagepoint of "kid doesn't have the stuff, so we'll give it to him/help him get it" -- it has to be "kid has other things going on, so we'll solve THOSE." Which may or may not be feasible, or even possible, but I couldn't say.

funny ringtones

To beat the air... Hector

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